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Ancestry Visa - How does it work


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#11 ppron747

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 02:42 AM

The status of British citizen did not come into being until 1983, when it was introduced by the British Nationality Act 1981. Your grandfather was presumably naturalised as either a citizen of the UK & Colonies (CUKC) if it happened between 1949 and 1982, or as a British subject, if before 1949.

Also, CUKC ceased to exist as a nationality status at the end of 1982, when it was replaced by British citizenship, British Dependent Territories citizenship and British Overseas citizenship.

Without any connection with the UK, it is unlikely that either your grandfather or your mother were British citizens at any time. But post some more details and we'll see - the name of the colony would certainly be handy, as would your mother's and father's dates and places of birth - and your own, of course...



#12 ianwong

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 06:23 AM

The status of British citizen did not come into being until 1983, when it was introduced by the British Nationality Act 1981. Your grandfather was presumably naturalised as either a citizen of the UK & Colonies (CUKC) if it happened between 1949 and 1982, or as a British subject, if before 1949.

Also, CUKC ceased to exist as a nationality status at the end of 1982, when it was replaced by British citizenship, British Dependent Territories citizenship and British Overseas citizenship.

Without any connection with the UK, it is unlikely that either your grandfather or your mother were British citizens at any time. But post some more details and we'll see - the name of the colony would certainly be handy, as would your mother's and father's dates and places of birth - and your own, of course...


Hi,

My grandfather served in the Royal Merchant Navy (any connection to the UK?) and my parents were born in the Straits Settlement of Malacca prior to its independence in 1957. I think this make them BOC.? I was born in Malacca in 1986.

#13 ppron747

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 01:00 PM

I'm not sure that the Merchant Navy has ever been "Royal" - or that the Royal Navy has ever been "Merchant" - but I cannot see how your grandfather's service with it would make any difference to your own situation.

Your parents would have been citizens of the UK & Colonies by birth in Malacca, and would have retained this status on independence, because the Federation of Malaya Independence Act 1957 contained no provision for loss of CUKC.

On 1.1.83, they would both have become British Overseas citizens - and BOC cannot generally be transmitted to a further generation.

If you had been born between 31 Aug 1957 and 31 Dec 1982, you would have been a CUKC by descent from your father, and would have become a BOC yourself. However, you were born too late for this too happen, so you appear to be solely a citizen of Malaysia.

But even if you had been a BOC, BOCs are subject to UK immigration control, and your avenues for settlement in UK would have been very limited - more or less as limited as they are now, really....

#14 ianwong

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 03:00 AM

I'm not sure that the Merchant Navy has ever been "Royal" - or that the Royal Navy has ever been "Merchant" - but I cannot see how your grandfather's service with it would make any difference to your own situation.

Your parents would have been citizens of the UK & Colonies by birth in Malacca, and would have retained this status on independence, because the Federation of Malaya Independence Act 1957 contained no provision for loss of CUKC.

On 1.1.83, they would both have become British Overseas citizens - and BOC cannot generally be transmitted to a further generation.

If you had been born between 31 Aug 1957 and 31 Dec 1982, you would have been a CUKC by descent from your father, and would have become a BOC yourself. However, you were born too late for this too happen, so you appear to be solely a citizen of Malaysia.

But even if you had been a BOC, BOCs are subject to UK immigration control, and your avenues for settlement in UK would have been very limited - more or less as limited as they are now, really....


Hi,

Thanks for the update.

Another related query.

My uncle became a British Citizen as he was a CUKC and has right of abode entitlement as he lived in the UK for over 5 years before 1982 (section 2 (1) ©). I saw somewhere on another site that his children born outside the UK can acquire BC by decent? Is this correct?
Cheers

#15 ppron747

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 03:34 AM

Hi Ian

I assume he was also born in Malacca, when it was a colony? If so, YES - the combination of CUKC by birth together with right of abode only by residence results in British citizenship otherwise than by descent, and his children born after 1 January 1983 would be BCs by descent.

There are a couple of points to be wary of:
  • the foregoing doesn't work for children born before 1.1.83 - they would have been CUKCs by descent, but would have just become BOCs, as ROA under 2(1 )(c ) couldn't be transmitted to the next generation. Only children born after 1.1.83 could benefit.
  • and if your uncle wasn't a CUKC by birth in a colony (eg if he was born in one of the neighbouring states instead), then he would have been a CUKC by descent, and would have gone on to be a BC by descent, which means that he wouldn't be able to transmit BC to the next generation.
Hope this helps!
rgds

#16 JAJ

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:32 AM

Hi Ian

I assume he was also born in Malacca, when it was a colony? If so, YES - the combination of CUKC by birth together with right of abode only by residence results in British citizenship otherwise than by descent, and his children born after 1 January 1983 would be BCs by descent.

There are a couple of points to be wary of:

  • the foregoing doesn't work for children born before 1.1.83 - they would have been CUKCs by descent, but would have just become BOCs, as ROA under 2(1 )(c ) couldn't be transmitted to the next generation. Only children born after 1.1.83 could benefit.
  • and if your uncle wasn't a CUKC by birth in a colony (eg if he was born in one of the neighbouring states instead), then he would have been a CUKC by descent, and would have gone on to be a BC by descent, which means that he wouldn't be able to transmit BC to the next generation.
Hope this helps!
rgds



There may be a twist on this, however. What if uncle acquired a CUKC passport before 1983 (either with or without Right of Abode). Would this have caused loss of Malaysian citizenship?

If so, and the other parent wasn't in a position to pass on citizenship (mothers often were not at that time), then children born pre-1983 to such a person would have been solely CUKC, and solely BOC from 1983. As long as they had not acquired Malaysian or any other citizenship, there might be an entitlement to British citizenship under s4B of the Act.

The Home Office have amended their previous stance (which was that possession of any British passport caused loss of Malaysian citizenship) to one restricted to a British citizen passport. But this does not answer the question on how possession of a CUKC passport pre-1.1.83 would have been viewed by the Malaysian authorities.

#17 ianwong

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 05:03 AM

Hi Ian

I assume he was also born in Malacca, when it was a colony? If so, YES - the combination of CUKC by birth together with right of abode only by residence results in British citizenship otherwise than by descent, and his children born after 1 January 1983 would be BCs by descent.

There are a couple of points to be wary of:

  • the foregoing doesn't work for children born before 1.1.83 - they would have been CUKCs by descent, but would have just become BOCs, as ROA under 2(1 )(c ) couldn't be transmitted to the next generation. Only children born after 1.1.83 could benefit.
  • and if your uncle wasn't a CUKC by birth in a colony (eg if he was born in one of the neighbouring states instead), then he would have been a CUKC by descent, and would have gone on to be a BC by descent, which means that he wouldn't be able to transmit BC to the next generation.
Hope this helps!
rgds


Hi Paul,

Many thanks for the informative reply.

His children were born after 1.01.83 and therefore became BC by decent.
I presumed his children can apply for ROA entitlement since they are BC by decent with High Com.?

Cheers,

#18 ppron747

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 05:20 AM

Hi Paul,

Many thanks for the informative reply.

His children were born after 1.01.83 and therefore became BC by decent.
I presumed his children can apply for ROA entitlement since they are BC by decent with High Com.?

Cheers,


Absolutely, Ian - I can't see that there would be any reason why there would be any problem in their getting Certificates of Entitlement to the Right of Abode in their Malaysian passports. (It's "descent, incidentally - :) )

#19 ianwong

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 06:42 AM

Hi Paul,

Many thanks for the informative reply.

His children were born after 1.01.83 and therefore became BC by decent.
I presumed his children can apply for ROA entitlement since they are BC by decent with High Com.?

Cheers,


Absolutely, Ian - I can't see that there would be any reason why there would be any problem in their getting Certificates of Entitlement to the Right of Abode in their Malaysian passports. (It's "descent, incidentally - :) )


Hi Paul,

That's brilliant.! Incidentally my uncle do not travel with a British passport to and from UK but still retain a Malaysian passport with a ROA sticker on it. How does his children show proof of their entitlement thru' their dad's claims of being a BC otherwise by descent?

Cheers

#20 ppron747

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 11:47 AM

Uncle's Malacca birth certificate, his marriage certificate and the kids' birth certificates, together with the Cert of Entitlement showing ROA under 2(1)(c ) should do it. This is not at all uncommon in Malaysia, so I wouldn't imagine they'd get a hard time from the BHC - they should be used to it.
cheers




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