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British Citizen Or Right Of Abode


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#1 fisn n chips

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 05:09 AM

Hello,
Re: British by decent, right of abode or just ancestry visa?

My father and grandparents are all born British citizens ( Scottish from Glasgow), moved to Canada ( commonwealth country) in 1955 when my dad was 20. My dad and mother met and were married in 1962 and I was born and then adopted in 1963. My scottish side never became canadian citizens ( apparently irrelevant as you cannot give up british citizenship very easily). From what I've also read to that point it looked like i was a citizen by decent and just needed a passport but then i researched more and found out that British law does not fully recognise adoption of a canadian child as same as natural birth. So am I invalid / screwed? I'm hoping I still can get right of abode unless I have understood everything incorrectly.

Also, what if my parents never told me I was adopted as most kids were not told back then.

Advice/ opinions needed please.
Cheers,
Stewart



#2 Mutly

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 02:27 PM

Sorry I'm confused. You were adopted by a married couple in Canada in 1963 and your adoptive father was born in the UK?

If so, were you registered as a CUKC (Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies, the name of British citizenship then) at any point following the adoption?

Were you or a biological parent born in the UK?

#3 fisn n chips

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 04:05 PM

Sorry I'm confused. You were adopted by a married couple in Canada in 1963 and your adoptive father was born in the UK?

If so, were you registered as a CUKC (Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies, the name of British citizenship then) at any point following the adoption?

Were you or a biological parent born in the UK?



#4 fisn n chips

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 04:21 PM


Sorry I'm confused. You were adopted by a married couple in Canada in 1963 and your adoptive father was born in the UK?

If so, were you registered as a CUKC (Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies, the name of British citizenship then) at any point following the adoption?

Were you or a biological parent born in the UK?


Thanks for the response,

Yes , my adoptive father and both grandparents ( his side) were indeed born British citizens as they were all born in Scotland then came to Canada. I on the other hand was both born and adopted in Canada after they moved here in the fifties. I was born/ adopted to legally married parents in 1963 and my father is true British born citizen. Both parents are now deceased so no way to find out if I was ever registered or if my father renounced british citizenship for canadian. But from what I've read you can not renounce British citizenship very easily back then ( so highly doubt he ever did). This would all be fine if I was blood as I would be uk citizen by decent but then SURPRISE, because I'm adopted ( instead of blood) it seems to change everything again because the uk does not recognize adoption back then in the sixties so they would not have accepted registration either I bet.

Cheers,
Stewart

#5 Mutly

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 03:56 PM

Unfortunately the documents within the HO Nationality Instructions are not working currently, trying to open individual chapters gives this message


The UK Border Agency website is currently unavailable owing to technical problems. We apologise for any inconvenience.

We are working to resolve the problem as quickly as possible. Please do not call our contact centres about the website, as they cannot provide any more information. Please try the website again later.


I understand that British citizenship does not extend to adopted children automatically, if they don't already have it through their birth parents and/or place of birth then registration is necessary and currently possible for minors. However I'm not sure of the provisions at the time when you were adopted and will see if I can find them in the nationality instructions later, I though I'd find a definite answer there to link. That's the best official source of information, if not clear from that, it would be necessary to consult an advisor.

Then entry clearance guidance won't open either, but I understand that you can apply for an ancestry visa through adopted parents and grandparents where you're not a British citizen through them.

Your father would have had to go to the British high commission to specifically renounce citizenship. This is unlikely, as would it having an effect on you if done after the adoption. Canada banned multiple citizenship in most situations until 1977 however I don't think renunciation was necessary to be naturalised.

#6 fisn n chips

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:23 PM

Unfortunately the documents within the HO Nationality Instructions are not working currently, trying to open individual chapters gives this message


The UK Border Agency website is currently unavailable owing to technical problems. We apologise for any inconvenience.

We are working to resolve the problem as quickly as possible. Please do not call our contact centres about the website, as they cannot provide any more information. Please try the website again later.


I understand that British citizenship does not extend to adopted children automatically, if they don't already have it through their birth parents and/or place of birth then registration is necessary and currently possible for minors. However I'm not sure of the provisions at the time when you were adopted and will see if I can find them in the nationality instructions later, I though I'd find a definite answer there to link. That's the best official source of information, if not clear from that, it would be necessary to consult an advisor.

Then entry clearance guidance won't open either, but I understand that you can apply for an ancestry visa through adopted parents and grandparents where you're not a British citizen through them.

Your father would have had to go to the British high commission to specifically renounce citizenship. This is unlikely, as would it having an effect on you if done after the adoption. Canada banned multiple citizenship in most situations until 1977 however I don't think renunciation was necessary to be naturalised.




First off, thank you for your help and efforts!
Here's what I got so far;

Using the "official uk site" ( http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov ) it looks like I do have the Right of Abode ( at least according to that terribly incomplete site).

Here's what it says about
How RIGHT OF ABODE would apply to myself.

ROA4 Basis of a person's claim to right of abode. #5,
I am a Commonwealth citizen (not a CUKC) with a parent / adoptive parent who, at the time of the my birth / adoption, was still a CUKC by birth ( born 1939 Scotland) in the United Kingdom. My father never renounced uk citizenship. According to this web site this applies to all commonwealth citizens who had ROA before 1 Jan 1983, provided they had not ceased to be a Commonwealth citizen at any time (  i've always been Canadian ).

Adoption is valid according to " Designation of overseas adoptions order of 1973" in which Canada is part of.

Section 2 of the 1971 Act, as amended by s.39(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 (BNA 1981), defines the two categories of people who currently have the right of abode: British citizens; and Commonwealth citizens who had the right of abode before 1 January 1983 and who have not, since then, ceased to be Commonwealth citizens.

RE forms: 2(1)(a), 2(1)(B). Of course having said the above this government site gets these 2 important forms completely mixed up so what else did they get wrong!

Any thoughts???

Cheers,
Stewart

P.S has no government ever hear of a bloody flow chart? All would have been solved easily by now. I am also quite disgusted that the uk did not at the time recognize legal adoptions as modern day it's considered the same as it should be. This wrong should be righted retroactively! If the uk did justly recognise adoption, I would have just gotten my uk passport. There literally must be thousands of unaware commonwealth adopted persons with uk citizenship out there!

#7 fisn n chips

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 07:30 PM

I forgot t mention, I am aware of the " Ancestry visa" but this would not be acceptable as I/ we want to decide when we go and when we exit etc and only proper uk citizenship or the right of abode provides this.

#8 Mutly

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 02:09 PM

There are flowcharts at Chapter 2: Automatic acquisition - persons born before 1 January 1983 in volume 1 of the Nationality instructions however I'm still getting error messages trying to open volume 2 where from memory the subject is covered in more detail. I don't know for certain either way, but will link the relevant chapters when I can open and find them, I know the information is there somewhere.

#9 fisn n chips

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:36 AM

There are flowcharts at Chapter 2: Automatic acquisition - persons born before 1 January 1983 in volume 1 of the Nationality instructions however I'm still getting error messages trying to open volume 2 where from memory the subject is covered in more detail. I don't know for certain either way, but will link the relevant chapters when I can open and find them, I know the information is there somewhere.



Found the flow charts you mentioned THANKS !

According to the flow chats I have BOTH citizenship already and Right of abode. This is not correct as I was adopted in commonwealth country of canada (and not UK) as required for citizenship but as I said this web site is surprisingly FULL of errors. Even the flow chart misses the adoption thing completely as it only asks if your adopted and not where which is as crucial. Anyhow, if not adopted i would be just applying for my passport but since they dont like adopted persons, its now time to get the certificates together and deal with the red tape nightmare to come. All this crap just because I was bloody adopted %#%!!! Disgusting !

Thanks again for your guidance.




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