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British Subject. Dual National


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#1 paulchristian

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:59 PM

To all Nationality experts,

I was born in Venezuela on 1960 and I got a British Passport by descent on 1971 because my father was born in Grenada (Former colony). When grenada of their independence the British Embassy at Caracas told me that can't renew my passport because the island got their independence.

I think that I am elegible to the British Overseas Citizenship (British Nationality Act 1981) as the following:

My father renounced his British Subject Status and then acquired the Venezuelan nationality on 1972

I was registered as CUKCs by descent before 1983 based on birth in a non-Commonwealth country to a CUKC father

Do I still qualify to the British Overseas Citizenship?

note: Grenada got their independence on 1973



#2 ppron747

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 12:38 AM

Interesting!

In normal circumstances, the answer would be that you became Grenadian and lost citizenship of the UK & Colonies (CUKC) in 1974 (which was when Grenada became independent - not 1973)

However, if your father really did formally renounce British nationality in 1972 when he became Venezuelan, then my reading of the citizenship provisions in the Grenada Independence Constitution is that you would indeed have retained CUKC on Grenada's independence, and would now be a British Overseas citizen.

Section 94(3) of the Independence Constitution says that someone in your position would only automatically have become a citizen of Grenada on 7 February 1974 if his father or mother became one, or was prevented from doing so only by their death. It doesn't say anything about renunciation. So I think you did not become Grenadian on 7 Feb 1974.

And if you didn't acquire citizenship of Grenada on Independence Day, you retained your claim to CUKC - and went on to become a BOC.

But this only works if your father made a formal renunciation of CUKC, in the prescribed form, which was registered by the British Home Office under section 19 of the British Nationality Act 1948. No other form of renunciation will do.

Do you have your father's renunciation certificate?

#3 paulchristian

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 01:52 AM

I never applied for a Grenadian Passport and my father too

In the Venezuelan laws you must renounce to your nationality of origin to acquire to Venezuelan citizenship. I don't have the renunciation certificate. Does the British Embassy at Caracas have copies of my father's renounciation certificate?.


In the past Venezuela does not recognize dual citizenship. but the uk yes. that's why I got my British passport.

My grandparents were born and died in Grenada before the independence day. can I claim the British Overseas citizenship as they died in Grenada as a British Subjects

#4 ppron747

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 03:15 AM

The fact that you haven't held a Grenadian passport makes no difference.

You can ask the Embassy whether they have a record of your father's renunciation (perhaps in the passport indexes), but if they don't, you could write direct to the Home Office in UK for them to check their records. (Immigration and Nationality Directorate, India Building, Water Street, Liverpool L2 0QN).

When writing give your father's full name and date and place of birth, and ask them about their records of renunciation, but don't go into details of your own wish to apply for BOC. If you ask them for advice, they will simply forward your letter to the British Embassy, as you're outside UK. You need to ask them the simple question about your father's renunciation - ie for the fact, not for an opinion.

And no, your grandparents having been born in Grenada before independence, but having died before it happened, can not help you towards British Overseas citizenship!

#5 JAJ

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 03:41 AM

In the Venezuelan laws you must renounce to your nationality of origin to acquire to Venezuelan citizenship.


But what exactly do you have to do? If all you have to do is renounce your foreign citizenship to the Venezuelan authorities then this is not recognised by British law.



can I claim the British Overseas citizenship


Are you aware that British Overseas citizenship does not carry a right of abode in the UK? It gives you a few extra rights sure, but won't exempt you from immigration control.

And presumably you're still a Venzuelan citizen - in that case you don't have access to the special right to register as a British citizen.

You can ask the Embassy whether they have a record of your father's renunciation (perhaps in the passport indexes), but if they don't, you could write direct to the Home Office in UK for them to check their records. (Immigration and Nationality Directorate, India Building, Water Street, Liverpool L2 0QN).

When writing give your father's full name and date and place of birth, and ask them about their records of renunciation, but don't go into details of your own wish to apply for BOC. If you ask them for advice, they will simply forward your letter to the British Embassy, as you're outside UK. You need to ask them the simple question about your father's renunciation - ie for the fact, not for an opinion.


Would the Home Office or the Embassy reveal such information even if they had it?

Would another solution be to apply for a BOC passport? However it would be important to check that being granted such a passport would not cause loss of Venezuelan citizenship.

#6 ppron747

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 04:47 AM

Would the Home Office or the Embassy reveal such information even if they had it?

If a renunciation was registered, the Home Office will have it - and the Embassy may have it, because unless the Embassy records the details of renunciations, there's nothing to stop people who have renounced from simply getting another British passport... I see no reason why the information shouldn't be divulged. Paulchristian manifestly has good reason to need it, and it was only in the 1970s that HO stopped publishing and selling lists of people who'd naturalisaed, registered and renounced, so the information is hardly top secret. I don't know whether Paulchristian's father is still alive; if he isn't, then data protection legislation does not apply to him.

Perhaps a solution would be to apply for a BOC passport? However it would be important to check that being granted such a passport would not cause loss of Venezuelan citizenship.

Not sure that a passport application is the right approach, if the Embassy doesn't now have a record of the renunciation. The onus is on the applicant to satisfy the Embassy of his claim to British nationality, so it could be argued that it's not their job to get the Home Office search for the proof of the father's renunciation in order to prove that the son is British. At the very least they could charge a hefty fee for arranging the search, when HO might not charge anything if a direct approach is made.

#7 paulchristian

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 06:42 PM

Yes I can't register as a British Citizen because I have obtained a british passport by descent (that would means that I am national of other country).

but the british embassy must know that I acquired a British passport in a special circumstance:

Only the UK and me know and I have dual nationality
the venezuelan authorities musn't know about my other citizenship this was kept in secret between me and the UK

For the venezuelan authorities (carrying a british passport) i was british
For the Uk i was british subject by descent

when travelling overseas i use my british passport to depart and enter in venezuela using my venezuelan passport

to applicate for the BOC I will need the BOC's Certification number which I don't have it.

my father is not alive

#8 ppron747

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 06:48 PM

You've lost me completely, paulchristian! You say in your latest post that you use your British passport when you travel overseas. WHAT British passport have you got?

#9 paulchristian

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 07:00 PM

I have a british passport as a (British Subject: Citizen of the UK and Colonies) and british embassy doesn't want to renew it because the island got their independence

my first British passport was issue on 1971 and expired on 1975. when grenada got their independence the british embassy told that I lost my CUKC's passport or nationality because my parents were born in grenada

Edited by paulchristian, 04 September 2006 - 07:07 PM.


#10 ppron747

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 08:14 PM

I think we're going round in circles....

1. There was nothing "special" about the circumstances in which you qualified for CUKC. You were simply born outside the UK & Colonies to father who was born in Grenada when it was still a colony.

2. If, as you claim, your father renounced CUKC before Grenada's independence, then you did not become a Grenadian, and therefore remained a CUKC. I have already made suggestions as to how you can find out if your father did indeed formally renounce CUKC. I can only suggest that you follow these up - it is the only way you are going to find out.

3. You were almost certainly not registered as a BOC - if you are one, it was simply an automatic consequence of the British Nationality Act 1981 coming into force. You will not, therefore, need to produce a certificate of registration as a BOC.

4. If your birth was registered by the British Embassy, then your British birth certificate, plus details of your father's renunciation, should be sufficient to prove your claim to be a BOC now. If your birth was NOT registered by the British Embassy, you will need to produce your father's Grenada birth certificate, his marriage certificate and your own Venezuelan birth certificate - and details of your father's renunciation.

5. What is this insistence on getting a BOC passport? It does NOT allow you to live in UK. It allows you to go to UK for a visit - but so does your Venezuelan passport...




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