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Mother a British Citizen, can I get a UK passport?


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#11 ppron747

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:22 AM

Thank you. This is encouraging news.

I have a Canadian wife and a son born in Britain both of whom are dependents on my ancestry visa.

Basically, it seems I have two options for us to acquire citizenship:

Option 1:
Extend the Ancestry visas for me and my family
at the end of five years apply for ILR
at the same time apply for naturalisation for all of us based on 5 years of residency?

Option 2:
Extend the Ancestry visas for me and my family
Apply for British citizenship by virtue of my mother (as described above)
My son therefore becomes British by virtue of birth in Britain to a citizen?
Apply for naturalisation for my wife being the spouse of a British citizen living in Britain?

Have I got the options right?
Is there any particular advantage or disadvantage to either course of action?


For Option 1, you would actually need to wait for a further year after getting ILR, because although the Act requires 5 years residence, it also requires the applicant to have had no time restrictions on their stay for the 12 months leading up to the application.

And for Option 2, you would still need to apply for your son to be registered as a British citizen - it wouldn't happen automatically.

The quicker option would be Option 2. You can apply now, your wife can apply as soon you're British, and so can your son. The only downside (which may or may not be important to you) is that you end up as a British citizen by descent, so you wouldn't be able to transmit British citizenship to further children born outside UK, should you be thinking of leaving... (But your wife and son would be British citizens otherwise than by descent so they'd still be able to transmit to children born outsdie UK).

Option 1 is a longer haul but is slightly cheaper (because joint applications cost less than individual ones), and you all end up as BCs otherwise than by descent.



#12 ftgpmb

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 01:29 PM

this is good advice - if we follow option 2, sounds like my wife could confer British citizenship to our future children if they were born outside the UK for some reason, because she would be citizen other than by descent ...

One final snag though ... in researching the facts with my mother, it turns out that when she applied for a passport in South Africa in 1960's, they didn't give her a CUKC passport, they gave her a full UK citizen passport with right of abode based on her father's place of birth in the UK. She says they weren't intrested in her place of birth being Malacca and required her to produce birth and marriage certificates of her parents as part of the application.

i.e. I think this means she is a citizen by descent rather than a CUKC citizen?

If so, does it matter?

she was clearly entitled to CUKC citizenship by virtue of her birth in Malacca in 1938, even if she was never issued with a passport declaring this. in the application guidance they ask for her expired CUKC passport and she doesn't have one. what should I do?

#13 ppron747

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:12 PM

this is good advice - if we follow option 2, sounds like my wife could confer British citizenship to our future children if they were born outside the UK for some reason, because she would be citizen other than by descent ...


Absolutely.

One final snag though ... in researching the facts with my mother, it turns out that when she applied for a passport in South Africa in 1960's, they didn't give her a CUKC passport, they gave her a full UK citizen passport with right of abode based on her father's place of birth in the UK. She says they weren't intrested in her place of birth being Malacca and required her to produce birth and marriage certificates of her parents as part of the application.

i.e. I think this means she is a citizen by descent rather than a CUKC citizen?

If so, does it matter?

she was clearly entitled to CUKC citizenship by virtue of her birth in Malacca in 1938, even if she was never issued with a passport declaring this. in the application guidance they ask for her expired CUKC passport and she doesn't have one. what should I do?

Since 1949, no British passport should indicate the "whys & wherefores" of a person's claim to British nationality - it should simply say "British subject; citizen of the United Kingdom & Colonies", "British citizen", British Protected person", etc etc. I don't know why the office in South Africa were so interested in your grandparents; they were simply not - in the 1960s - relevant to whether your mother was a CUKC. She was a CUKC, and she had that status by birth in Malacca. The concept of "right of abode" didn't exist in UK law in the 1960s, and her parents became relevant only after 1973, because it was through having a UK-born parent that your mother acquired the right of abode in UK under the Immigration Act 1971.

On the question of your mother's expired passport, I think you should simply say that she hasn't got one, if that is the case, and explain why. A passport isn't stated in the Act to be a requirement for eligibility under this section. If the Home Office are concerned that she might have lost British nationality at some point, the answer to that is in their own records. The Federation of Malaya Act 1957 didn't contain any provision for the loss of CUKC, and the only other way she could have lost it would have been by renouncing it, and if she did that, the Home Office have always been the only authoritiy able to register renunciations, so they would have a record of it.

Edited by ppron747, 02 May 2006 - 06:25 AM.


#14 Guest_john01_*

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Posted 10 May 2006 - 08:54 AM

I have a friend with a similar situation and wonder if anyone can advise.

Paula born 1939 in Southern Rhodesia, holds a British subject passport. (expired 1969)
Paula’s father was born in Southern Rhodesia, 1911 (at the time of Birth S.R. was an extra territorial jurisdiction)
Both Paula’s maternal grandparents were born in the UK.
Paula left S.R. and took SA citizenship in 1976, therefore would have been have excluded from Zimbabwean citizen at the time of independence. (Dual nationality not allowed)

Am I correct in my belief that the Paula’s father was a CUKC by birth in an ET jurisdiction. (Fathers father was a Brit subject)
Subject was a CUKC by birth in SR to a CUKC father.
As Paula did not acquire Zimbabwean citizenship at Independence, the 1981 BNA would have moved her British Subject status to British Citizenship.

This is important as her daughter lives in the UK, she has no relatives in SA and is a widow. She would like to come and live with her daughter, British Citizenship would help her clear a lot of the hurdles.


Is the Paula a British Citizen?

Advice from the experts would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

#15 ftgpmb

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 09:29 PM

Thanks paul for all the good advice. It worked!!! Went with Option 2 - i.e citizenship by virtue of birth in 1973 to a mother who was a CUK citizen. Application was very quick (less than 4 weeks) and they accepted certified copies of the birth certificates. Just had my citizenship ceremony today.

Now on to the question of:
a) my wife (Canadian in their 5th year of our extended Ancestry Visa - based on my ancestry) and;
B) my son (born in the UK last year).

How do I now apply for them to become British and on what grounds?

advice greatly appreciated.

#16 ppron747

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 11:29 PM

Thanks paul for all the good advice. It worked!!! Went with Option 2 - i.e citizenship by virtue of birth in 1973 to a mother who was a CUK citizen. Application was very quick (less than 4 weeks) and they accepted certified copies of the birth certificates. Just had my citizenship ceremony today.

Now on to the question of:
a ) my wife (Canadian in their 5th year of our extended Ancestry Visa - based on my ancestry) and;
b ) my son (born in the UK last year).

How do I now apply for them to become British and on what grounds?

advice greatly appreciated.

That's great news!

The first step for your wife is ILR, I think - without it, she cannot meet the requirement for naturalisation. I hope someone can wade in with some detailed suggestions here, as I'm shakier on the Immigration Rules than I am on nationality, but I think something needs to be done soon, because your acquisition of BC means that she's no longer the dependent of an Ancestry visa holder.

Once she's got ILR, she should be eligible to apply for naturalisation immediately, as the spouse of a British citizen, who has been in UK for three years.

The babe is entitled to be registered now - see section A of Guide MN1, which you can get (together with the application form and fee note) from this page on the IND website

Congrats again - and I hope the next stages go as smoothly!

#17 JAJ

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 02:16 AM

Thanks paul for all the good advice. It worked!!! Went with Option 2 - i.e citizenship by virtue of birth in 1973 to a mother who was a CUK citizen. Application was very quick (less than 4 weeks) and they accepted certified copies of the birth certificates. Just had my citizenship ceremony today.

Now on to the question of:
a) my wife (Canadian in their 5th year of our extended Ancestry Visa - based on my ancestry) and;
B) my son (born in the UK last year).

How do I now apply for them to become British and on what grounds?

advice greatly appreciated.



Paul's given you good advice about your son - he can now be registered as British and doesn't need to have ILR for that because he's UK born.

As for your wife, it's a little more complex because it seems the Home Office don't really know what to do in a situation like yours where someone goes direct from ancestry visa, work permit or HSMP to British citizenship. Read this thread:
http://www.ukresiden...p...ic=6740&hl=

The bit about the children and citizenship is not applicable to your son because he's UK born. But as regards the rest, you probably should get some good immigration advice to understand what the options are for your wife. It may well require some concession outside the Immigration Rules (warning - if you do choose an immigration adviser, make sure he or she understands the issue and has experience in dealing with "exceptional" cases).

Once she does have ILR, then as Paul said she can apply for naturalisation immediately provided she meets the 3 year residence requirement.

#18 Stressful

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 07:56 AM

Thanks paul for all the good advice. It worked!!! Went with Option 2 - i.e citizenship by virtue of birth in 1973 to a mother who was a CUK citizen. Application was very quick (less than 4 weeks) and they accepted certified copies of the birth certificates. Just had my citizenship ceremony today.

Now on to the question of:
a) my wife (Canadian in their 5th year of our extended Ancestry Visa - based on my ancestry) and;
B) my son (born in the UK last year).

How do I now apply for them to become British and on what grounds?

advice greatly appreciated.



To save on reading through here, have you acquired citizenship through descent then?

We are now applying for a spousal visa for my husband in 2 weeks time. I think it could be easiest to apply for same for your wife?

We have been given such incorrect advice by the HO its unbelievable. We were told by the HO that my family had to remain on their AV until they expired, thank goodness I had the sense to query it and was able to get ILR for my son 8 days before his 18th birthday!!

But my sister who was in the same position as you and me applied for a spousal visa for her husband and has been successful. So that may be the route to go.

#19 JAJ

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:45 AM

To save on reading through here, have you acquired citizenship through descent then?

We are now applying for a spousal visa for my husband in 2 weeks time. I think it could be easiest to apply for same for your wife?

We have been given such incorrect advice by the HO its unbelievable. We were told by the HO that my family had to remain on their AV until they expired, thank goodness I had the sense to query it and was able to get ILR for my son 8 days before his 18th birthday!!

But my sister who was in the same position as you and me applied for a spousal visa for her husband and has been successful. So that may be the route to go.



But if you apply for a spouse visa for your husband, does that mean he has a further 2 years to go to get ILR?

#20 Stressful

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 11:01 AM



To save on reading through here, have you acquired citizenship through descent then?

We are now applying for a spousal visa for my husband in 2 weeks time. I think it could be easiest to apply for same for your wife?

We have been given such incorrect advice by the HO its unbelievable. We were told by the HO that my family had to remain on their AV until they expired, thank goodness I had the sense to query it and was able to get ILR for my son 8 days before his 18th birthday!!

But my sister who was in the same position as you and me applied for a spousal visa for her husband and has been successful. So that may be the route to go.



But if you apply for a spouse visa for your husband, does that mean he has a further 2 years to go to get ILR?


Yes, that is quite correct!" :angry: It is crazy that if one is out the country and have been married for longer than 4 years, you can apply for ILE, however it appears the only option if you are in the UK is to apply for a spousal visa! Madness. There doesn't appear to be any provision for those already in the UK who's circumstances change like our did.




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